Tuesday, 23 October 2007

Comment-28 Day Extention

I commented on this on this subject on Iain Dale's Blogspot:


Having just come back from living in the Netherlands, I find the whole debate regarding terrorism and security quite backward to say the least. It seems that British Society (including the Political elite) as a whole has not yet grappled with base principles:

-How does an open society deal with elements that are actively hostile to the established way of life and rule of law (the relationship between each other and between us and Government)?

-What balance should there be between individual rights and responsibilities?

-How do we aid the Police and Security Services to carry out their work without abuse any of power?

-Which is more important- social cohesion or individual rights?

Ed says its “Parliament's job is to protect our freedoms and liberties.” .This sounds like “passing the buck” and absolving themselves of their responsibility, because its everybody’s responsibility to ensure democracy is upheld. Sir Ian Blair said a couple of years ago “What type of police service do we want” yet nobody seems to answer that question in any meaningful way.

Where is the rational debate? Does anybody in the “Little Britain” actually understand the threat we face? Do we fully understand the consequences of modern technology, radical thinking (be it extreme left, right or a religiously inspired ideology) and violent action has on society as a whole?

To put it even more brutally do we comprehend the fact that somebody with Sixth Form Chemistry can make crude biological/chemical weapons and release it on a packed commuter train going to London?

Aum Shinrikyo understood this in Tokyo when they released home made Sarin. Islamic insurgents understand this with jerry rigged Chlorine Bombs in Iraq and other groups hostile to our way of life understand this to, perhaps they might even be working in the NHS…

Can we be so complacent regarding the ‘new reality’? The Dutch Intelligence Services released public papers on the destabilizing threat of Radical Islam within Dutch Society (which can be found on my blog)-has MI5 done the same?

The UK has the lowest participation in the democratic process in Western Europe, lower than even Iraq, yet we crow on about living in a ‘police state’. Who allows that to happen? Those who are engaged politically usually do so from a tub-thumping, tribal, dogmatic point of view from the prism of a self important media that can barely report beyond its shores, and when it does it is through a narrow minded viewpoint, making the ‘British’ even more ignorant of the outside world (far more than even America).

If ID cards, CCTV, extra security and the extension of the 28 day questioning won’t work then what will work?

There needs be a bi-partisan approach to Anti-Terror legislation, with a public fully engaged and informed not just on domestic terrorism, but its international aspects as well, with all its implications considered. I find all too often that 'informed opinion' is based on British Media (both from the left and right) which is dogmatic to say the least.

I'm not suggesting that the current administration has got it 'right', but I do find it astonishing that Conservative Commentary is against working with the Government when they themselves have introduced Anti-Terrorist Legislation that equally affected Civil Liberties when combating the IRA.

What is equally disappointing regarding the Conservative position is when it considered its ‘Broken Society’ policy that it did not consider the wider geo-political factors that fuel Islamic neo-Salafist militancy within Western Society.

And what of other wider questions-Does Anti-Americanism (which is rampant) damage the way Britian deals with future security threats and how America can provide us with help? Likewise the same with Europe?Are we going to be isolationist without any Allies?

The UK is engaged in a dogmatic debate based on wishy washy ideology. Perhaps not going through the trauma of the Sarin Gas attacks in Tokyo, Oklahoma Bombings, 9/11, or the assassination of key political figures as happend in The Netherlands has made Britain complacent? This is not to say that the 7/7 bombing were not a shock to the United Kingdom-clearly it was- but it seems to have none of the political effects that have caused other countries to become more considered and robust.

Too many kettles and pots for my liking in this 'debate'.


John Trenchard said...

its actually a complex problem in the UK.
at least the Iraqis have the easy opt-out of blaming "foreign" terrorists coming into Iraq and blowing themselves up.

the problem the UK has is HOME GROWN terrorists, born and bred in the UK - and despite DECADES of more and more "race hate" legislation, political correctness, the multi-cultural doctrine and the "multi-faith" stuff espoused by Prince Charles - the reward for all that "enlightened" work is , not a series of BNP inspired terror bombings.

No. its Muslim terror attacks.

the UK political elite (except Tony Blair, may i add) are like rabbits caught in headlights and just dont know what to do - for to do what NEEDS to be done,would overturn over 30 years of their lofty "enlightened" approach.

it's quite fucking obvious to me what needs to be done. You bomb us again, we nuke Meccah with a Polaris missile.
Do it again, we nuke Medina.
Do it yet again, then we enabled the Civil Contigencies Bill , and warn all Muslim countries that several million extra people are heading their way.

Nice and simple. That's all they understand - strength. Just ask any Israeli.

And I'm no BNP guy. I'm actually Libertarian - but how else can you fight fascism? You can't hug fascism like what Chamberlain did.

John Trenchard said...

sorry., i was on a General Patton stream of thought there. and the above could only be done if the terrorist attack was on a vastly greater scale than 9/11.

lets face it - if the nutters let off a nuke in some European or American city, then it would be probably highly advisable for any Muslim to flee to a Muslim country, for their own safety.

(I'm talking doomsday , worst case scenario here)

Thomas Gordon said...

No Problem John

"the problem the UK has is HOME GROWN terrorists, born and bred in the UK - and despite DECADES of more and more "race hate" legislation, political correctness, the multi-cultural doctrine and the "multi-faith" stuff espoused by Prince Charles - the reward for all that "enlightened" work is , not a series of BNP inspired terror bombings."

For too long,under both Conservative and Labour administrations the have turned a blind eye to Islamic extremism and allowed extremism to grow within the UK.

I watched guys BACK IN 1991 being recruited by al Majahroon and its kind-nothing was done.

We need to go back to base principles and start again or we will have to nuke them.